"Isan-ness is pride" The vibrant flavor of Eve—Nutthida Palasak
Every story has its lead characters, the ones that bring the narrative to life. Similarly, in food, every dish has its star ingredient. The one that tells a delicious story, allowing you to savor the flavors and learn about the dish's background, one bite at a time.
Recently, we had the chance to taste the ‘leading character’ of Isan cuisine: Pla Ra (fermented fish), the superstar ingredient that elevates fresh ingredients at Saole Bangkok. The new restaurant, from Eve—Nutthida Palasak, the owner of Isan restaurants Zao and Saole Bangkok, who blends design thinking with ‘Isan-ness’ to offer a fresh take on familiar local flavors.
The taste of red shrimp, black garlic, and Pla Ra still lingers on our tongue, while the decor inside the restaurant perfectly reflects the bold flavors of the food and Eve’s personality. After savoring those flavorful dishes, we had the chance to sit down with Eve herself and chat about her life, her identity, and her passion for Isan people.
What else did you do before becoming ‘Eve of Zao’ ?
“I’ve worked in various fields. Originally, I studied fashion design, worked as a designer for a Japanese company, and even taught fashion part-time at a university. After living in Bangkok for about 10 years, destiny led me back to Isan. Once I returned home, I had to switch careers because fashion just wasn’t going to make money in Ubon Ratchathani. I was making high-end clothing, but it didn’t really fit the local market, so I needed to find a new career that suited my home.
“I looked around to see what people were doing in Ubon. Most were in agriculture, so my dad suggested I sell rice harvesters because there were no large harvesters available. Suddenly, a friend of mine from England, who was a manufacturer, wanted to enter the Ubon market. It was perfect timing. I went to Phitsanulok to learn from my dad’s friend, and after a month of training, I started selling rice harvesters. That’s how I began my new career.”
How did you come back to design?
“I’ve always been a design person. Even when I was selling rice harvesters, I put design into it. I’d do photoshoots with models, thinking about how to make it feel closer to who I truly am. But after a while, I started feeling like I wanted to do something more meaningful. Because, at that time, selling rice harvesters was just about making money. The business was doing well, I was making money, supporting my family. I’d drink, make money, and repeat. Nothing new.
“I realized that if life is just about making money and seeking personal happiness, then it doesn’t really have any meaning. Being human is tough, but I had the opportunity to study abroad and meet many talented people. I felt like I should use my knowledge to make a difference. At that point, I also thought I’d enjoy being a teacher. I loved sharing what I had learned with others.
“I wanted to do something that could actually change things. We only have one life, and if I could change something, whether it’s improving someone else’s life or my own. That would be great. Because back then, I was just partying. I wanted to take control of my life, so I started thinking about what I could do that would be meaningful.”
Is that what it means to live a meaningful life?
“I'm afraid of dying without leaving anything behind in this world, like just being useless. I don’t want to live a good life and then just die without making a difference. Our lives should be useful to someone, even if it's just one person. But that’s already enough to change their life. For me, that’s what it’s about. My life has been changed at so many points by others, and they’ve made it better and better. I want to be that person for someone else, someone who makes a difference and helps change their life for the better.”
Did you manage to do that?
“Suddenly, I got a call from the community development organization asking me to join the committee to select 10 Isan entrepreneurs to showcase their work abroad. That’s how I got to see craftsmanship that I wouldn’t normally have the chance to experience. When I saw their work, I thought we should do something together. Maybe we could create new products, build a new scene, and bring fresh ways of thinking to Isan.
“So, I reached out to the artisans, visited their homes, looked at their work, and started getting involved in community development projects. I met so many talented people from different provinces. If it weren’t for these community development initiatives and the contacts they provided, I probably wouldn’t have been able to connect with them.
“After teaching for about a year, I got so inspired that I decided to start my own brand, Foundisan, to find great products from Isan and collaborate with my students in Ubon Ratchathani, as well as some friends in Bangkok. We would go into the communities, gather ideas, and do design work. I was so happy. It started to feel like a new career for me, working with communities, using my design skills alongside theirs.”
How did you end up with Isan food?
“When COVID hit, I couldn’t sell anything, and there was stuff piling up at home. My students were like, ‘Miss, you need to come up with a new project that brings in money, like, now!’ The work I was doing with the communities wasn’t enough to support the team of nearly 10 people, though we did manage to do some exhibitions. One of my students suggested, 'Why not do food? You’ve always loved cooking.' I mean that’s true, because every year, I would host a chef's table in Ubon Ratchathani. It was really just a way to get together with friends, drink, and cook what I do best. I did that every year, and eventually, Zao Isan was born. It was all for survival.”
Why did you like hosting chef’s tables back then?
“I’ve always loved beauty and design in everything: the plates, the table, everything on it. I love it all: flowers, grass, and things people often overlook. I enjoy rearranging them into a new image that people have never seen before.
“My first dinner was 10 years ago. Back then, people were still afraid of Pla Ra. There were no proper Isan restaurants around at all. I was charging 4,000 baht per person, and people would fly in just to eat. Everyone was really happy. Every dish had fermented fish in it, but I didn’t tell anyone. Then, I’d reveal that it had fermented fish in it. Some people were upset that I didn’t mention it, but I’d tell them, ‘Congrats, you’ve just eaten Pla Ra!’”
Why is Pla Ra an important ingredient?
“It’s rooted deeply in every Isan person’s life, it’s just that it’s not always brought to the surface. When I first started cooking, I didn’t really know much about it. A friend of mine, Guy, was the one who introduced me to it. He told me that my grandmother was an amazing cook. I was so lucky to have a chef’s table at home, eating freshly cooked meals every day. My grandmother would gather wild veggies and fish from the local villagers and cook them fresh.
“I got to eat fresher ingredients than my friends. Plus, my grandmother loved cooking for the people they cared about. It wasn’t about money, it was about love and care. Back then, I ate out every day and never really noticed my grandmother’s cooking. It wasn’t until my friend pointed it out. He told me, 'Before you cook anything, you need to understand the ingredients you have at home.'
“Before, I hated going to the market with my mom. But when I went with Guy, I’d tell him which vegetables go well with this fish, or which ones are best in the rainy season. He spent a year with me, and it felt like I was doing research with him.”
Did you do everything yourself when you first started the restaurant?
“I brought the whole team from the rice harvester business to help. I called them together and told them we were going to switch to running a restaurant. I didn’t want to lay anyone off, but if they were willing to quit, I wouldn’t stop them. However, if they were willing to join, we would all learn together. We got in the van and went to do research as a team. Everyone was up for it, so we started driving around, tasting food. Eventually, we figured out the recipe by learning from my wet nurse, Jui. She said, 'Why didn’t you start this earlier? I would’ve stood by as your chef!' We spent about three months learning from her.”
Tell us about how you created your own Pla Ra recipe.
“Pla Ra is the star. It has to be different. It has to be the Pla Ra I truly love and could eat forever. I cooked it so much that my whole body started to smell like one! Normally, my dad would join me when I ate out. But once I started Zao Isan, he stopped going to papaya salad places with me. He said he was tired of them and didn’t want to eat anymore. Whenever we went to those places, I’d ask them how they made their Pla Ra, collecting tips along the way. I ate so much that everyone begged for a break. Even though the restaurant had already opened, we still hadn’t found the recipe I was happy with. I kept adjusting it until I finally got it right. Since then, I’ve used that recipe, and I’m really happy with it. It pairs well with fruit, and now even people who usually don’t eat Pla Ra love it!”
Has your Isan identity become stronger after starting the restaurant?
“I think my Isan identity has always been strong, but society suppresses it. My mother always encouraged me to study hard, go to Bangkok, or live abroad. Society makes us want to fit in and not be ourselves. It doesn’t teach us to be proud of where we come from.
“I was like most Isan people. After leaving Isan, I thought I would forget my roots. I thought I’d live abroad and never return. But since the challenge was about making Isan people proud, I realized that to do that, I needed to be proud of it first. I never felt that Isan was inferior, but everyone around me did. I spoke Isan from the start, only using Thai at school. At home, we spoke Isan all the time, and I never felt less than anyone else. It might be because my family was really proud of being Isan, and the food was amazing. There was nothing wrong with it.
“When I started teaching at Ubon Ratchathani University, it was one of the reasons I wanted to cook Isan food. In one of my classes, none of the students knew or seemed to care about their own background. When we discussed concepts or looked for inspiration, they were only interested in things from outside, not from their own culture. No one cared about the beauty of their own hometown or their roots. I had to slowly guide them to understand and appreciate where they came from.”
What's the beauty of Isan for you?
“I think I have a good sense of taste. I know how something can be beautiful. It’s about looking at things differently and presenting them in a new way. That’s my skill. But other people, like my students, don’t always have that. So, I have to help them see it. It’s the same idea behind Zao Isan. It’s taking things that people think are dirty or unappreciated and finding a way to make people accept them. It’s all connected.
“The strength of Isan has always been there. It just hasn’t been told in the right way. The narrative has always made Isan seem poor or pitiful. I needed to be one of the voices telling the story differently, telling it in a way that combines Isan with design thinking. That’s how it became a new perspective.
“There's beauty all around us. We don’t need to look far for it. Take a bamboo basket, for example. How can we make it beautiful? Or a mat. How can we make it beautiful? We don’t need to redesign them. We just need to place them in the right context, at the right time.”
What about the beauty of Isan food?
“Isan food is all about simplicity. It's so simple. The ingredients are straightforward because Isan food is easy to make. The flavors are simple too, but they’re delicious because the ingredients are fresh, and because the food is eaten in season.
“When I was in Bangkok and went to Isan restaurants, it wasn’t really Isan food. The taste was altered for city people. Everything has changed. The beauty of it has changed too. For example, Soup Makuer is a spicy green brinjal salad, served in a bowl, and eaten with vegetables or whatever. The challenge is making it beautiful in a way that still reminds people of home. It shouldn’t just be served in a bowl or plate that feels unfamiliar.
“Food at Zao is slightly twisted from the original. We just rearrange the vegetables and put them in a new bowl made in Ubon Ratchathani. We're using things people are familiar with in a new way. Isan people have seen this clay all their lives, but they’ve never seen it become a plate or a bowl. They’re familiar with it, yet it feels new. That’s the beauty of Zao.”
What's harder, fashion or food?
“Running a restaurant is much easier. I quit fashion because it never valued the people working behind the scenes, especially in the past. Nowadays, the trend is to value the people behind the work, but back then, it didn’t matter. If someone got cancer and died, they just died. They could never ask for anything.
“In the past, I sold T-shirts, and the labor cost to sew each one was only 5 baht, but I sold them for 2,000 baht. Who was really benefiting? The people at the bottom didn’t get anything. They worked and just died. A lot of the people who worked with me passed away. Some from cancer, others from exhaustion, lack of sleep, or heart failure. It made me realize how toxic the industry was, since it didn’t allow anyone to thrive, except for the designers and the company owners.
“But it was fate, in a way. It led me to a new path. Once I started a new career, I felt so much better. I kept going in this new direction because I wanted to do something meaningful, something that would help people get back on their feet. After starting the restaurant, within the first year, some of the employees were able to get a house loan or buy a car. The difference is huge. I'm really helping people now.”
It feels like Zao is an Isan restaurant for Isan people.
“It makes me want to build a stronger Isan empire, to help our people grow and thrive, so they can stand on their own without needing us forever. At Zao, no one was a chef before. We teach each other here, like a school. You don't need to know anything. Just be from Isan and willing to work, and you're welcome to join.
“We teach like at a school. You don’t have to know how to make Som Tum because we’ll teach you. This work has made me feel valuable. I want to see everyone grow and move forward with us. I want to see everyone shine, be able to go out and earn their spotlight.”
Are there any new projects lately?
“Saole is a new project that also comes from my desire to learn. I did a pop-up kitchen in Milan with Boyy (Boy–Wannasiri Kongman, co-founder of BOYY) and another pop-up in London with Smoking Goat. That experience allowed me to discover amazing ingredients and seafood. Their products were really good, but I felt they were missing the flavors I love. I thought people would enjoy it, so I wanted to take high-quality seafood and pair it with our local ingredients. People would be amazed because in Thailand, there aren’t many beautiful seafood restaurants where people can go on dates. Most of them are just casual dining places.
“How do we make seafood more than just seafood dipping sauce? It’s something more. The sea is far from Isan, so it’s really precious to Isan people. If you ask Isan kids where they’d want to go on Children’s Day, I’m sure 80% would say they want to go to the sea. Many people have never seen the ocean. When they go to the beach, they buy a lot of crabs and bring them back to share with relatives.
“A lot of Isan people work in Rayong or the south, and it feels like we’re doing something that they recognize as meaningful. We do it in our own way, always adding design thinking to it. It’s like raising animals. It has life. What’s in season? What’s available this month? What dishes can we create, and how do we handle the ingredients? If this type of fish runs out, what can we replace it with? We plan for the entire year, considering what we’ll need to do in each season. It’s similar to how we talk to farmers in Isan, except we’re talking to fishermen now. We go out to sea, and I get really seasick, but we have to be out there. It’s like starting all over again, learning new things, experiencing new flavors, and working with new ingredients.
“Each sea, each mountain, gives a different taste to its ingredients. It’s like starting fresh. The same is true for Isan. Each province has its own unique flavors. That’s what makes it exciting. Whenever we discover something new, we want others to enjoy the same taste we did.”
It seems like you really enjoy learning new things in life.
“Yes, I don't believe everyone is born talented. I wasn’t born talented either. Everything comes from effort and meeting the right people who help you get better faster. I like being around talented people. They help me a lot, and today, I’m standing here because of them. For those who aren’t skilled, we try to help them grow with us.
“I'm lucky because I became talented by being close to talented people. My life is better because of that, and I think it can work for others too. And it does! One of my team, who couldn’t even chop vegetables when we first met, is now a chef. I’ve also seen people who couldn’t speak English at all, and now they’re learning Chinese. It’s like everyone is starting to improve themselves. I feel that not knowing something is actually an advantage. When you don’t know, it pushes you to try harder. If I already knew, I might not have been brave enough to try. Humans are capable of learning, and maybe that’s why I enjoy learning so much. Being human is exciting because we get to learn something new every day.”
What does being human mean to you?
“Being human means many things. It allows us to experiment. Humans are always ready to learn, as long as we don’t close ourselves off. We can do crazy things and make the impossible possible. That’s why I feel that being human is something very precious. We can go in any direction, even pursue a path toward enlightenment. The potential for learning is endless. It’s not just about food or fashion. There’s so much more to explore in this world.”
What does ‘Isan-ness’ mean to you?
“It’s never the same answer (laughs). For me, it’s about pride. I can change a lot of things. I can take people with no jobs and give them one. I can take ingredients that no one appreciates and turn them into something people say, ‘Wow, this is delicious!’ The truth is, those ingredients have always had their worth, but no one ever really thought, ‘Oh, this is good!’ That’s all.”